Kanye vs. Chuck D

(Our fictitious discussion takes place in an abandoned warehouse in New York City, the site of a party for N.A.S.A.’s release party for The Spirit of Apollo, an album on which our participants in this rhetorical dialogue all play guest roles.)

Chuck D: Hey Kanye. Good to see you here, man.

Kanye West: Thanks D.

Chuck D: Call me Chuck. So, Kanye, what were you thinking the other night when you interrupted Taylor Swift’s acceptance speech at the Video Music Awards?

Kanye: I was being an activist standing up for what I believe.

Chuck D: And what is it precisely that you believe?

Kanye: I believe I am the best rapper in the world. I believe Beyonce’s video was the best video of the year, and possibly ever. I believe George Bush hates black people.

Chuck D: What is it about you, and your personae, that allows you to believe those three tenants?

Kanye: They are just true.

Chuck D: And it’s through your art form that you present your ideas, correct? What would you call your trade?

Kanye: Man, you know what my trade is.

Chuck D: I want to hear it from you. What is your trade?

Kanye: It offends me to have to say this.

Chuck D: I truly want to know, with no sense of barbarism or patronizing, what is your trade?

Kanye: Rapping. I’m an artist.

Chuck D: Is it the role of the artist to make art that challenges ideals?

Kanye: Yes.

Chuck D: Is it the role of the artists to make art that breeds new ideas, both politically and musically?

Kanye: Yes.

Chuck D: My group, Public Enemy, wrote divisive music that spoke to legions of people. We wrote classic songs like, “911 is Joke,” “Fight the Power” and “Power to the People.” Each one tackled different issue from police response time in black urban neighborhoods, deconstructing established beliefs about power and the system, and true democracy. What are your songs about?

Kanye: Terrorism, racism, civil war and religion.

Chuck D: Ah, you’re referring to the song “Jesus Walks,” then?

Kanye: Yes.

Chuck D: Is it not true that you quote the movie Happy Gilmore in that song? Is it also not true that you use the term “Niggaz” in that song? Is it also not true that you compare people’s love of God and their savior Jesus Christ to the way Kathy Lee Gifford and Regis Philbin need each other?

Kanye: Yes.

Chuck D: And you find no level of irony in the simplicity of your message?

Kanye: That’s some complex shit.

Chuck D: I see. Let’s go back to your three beliefs. On the first you claimed to be the best rapper in the world.

Kanye: Yes.

Chuck D: What do you believe is the purpose of rap?

Kanye: To entertain.

Chuck D: But was that always the case? When rap first started on the streets, it developed as a strong sense of community, and out of the strong oral history of blacks in America. We were like town criers, with style.

Kanye: Yeah, but that changed.

Chuck D: And what was the catalyst for that change?

Kanye: Money.

Chuck D: Precisely. Do you rap about money?

Kanye: Yes.

Chuck D: Do you rap about money in a Marxist sense?

Kanye: No. I rap about gold diggers. I rap about drug dealing. I rap about cool cities to live in.

Chuck D: Do you put any political sentiments in your music?

Kanye: No. That shit doesn’t sell.

Chuck D: So you care more about money than the politics you discuss publicly.

Kanye: I suppose so.

Chuck D: Let’s go to your second belief. Do you truly believe Beyonce’s video was better than Taylor Swift’s?

Kanye: Hell yes.

Chuck D: Why?

Kanye: Because Taylor Swift is white. That voting was straight-up racist.

Chuck D: Do you have any evidence of this? You may be right, but does it make any sense? Was it your place to interrupt this award show?

Kanye: No.

Chuck D: Don’t you think your energies would have been better spent discussing Afghanistan, Iraq, Obama, healthcare reform, poverty, structures of power, etc.? Rather, of course than interrupting an awards show.

Kanye: Beyonce should have won.

Chuck D: Does that matter? Is there any context in which Beyonce or Taylor Swift truly matter to the world dialectic?

Kanye: The what?

Chuck D: The world dialectic. The discussions that make and shape our world.

Kanye: No one has invited me to these discussions because they fear me. They fear what I may say.

Chuck D: Fair enough. Let’s move on to your statement about George W. Bush during a telethon supporting victims of Hurricane Katrina. You said, “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.”

Kanye: I did!

Chuck D: What was your goal?

Kanye: My goal was to make it known that George Bush doesn’t care about black people.

Chuck D: Yet you barely stood by that assertion once the media storm kicked in. Why?

Kanye: I don’t know. People were yelling at me.

Chuck D: I know why. That same money you talked about earlier—or the soon to be lack thereof. You engaged in a classic backtrack, not unlike The Dixie Chicks. If you are an important voice in a community, in our community, you must engage in personal responsibility. If you say something controversial, back it up. If you want to affect change, stand by your statements.

Kanye: But George Bush doesn’t care about black people. I thought everyone knew that.

Chuck D: Lots of presidents haven’t cared about black people. When you call them out, you stand by it. Elvis still don’t mean shit to me, and I stand by that. Will you stand by your actions, or will you continue to pop off and retract?

Kanye: I gotta go.